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Post by ChrisW on Jan 11, 2010 13:32:03 GMT -6
Have to admit T, this is the first time I have had the pleasure of racing with you and I have to admit, you did a great job, your boy however looked out the box. It took me a few laps to get by you and even longer to catch and pass Eon. His line is tight and if he doesn't bobble in two, I probably don't get around him without a little how do you say, thump! Fun run, just took to long to get my act together. Congradulations Lane and Gary for running up front the entire event. Chris
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Post by turbot on Jan 11, 2010 13:47:38 GMT -6
Just for clarification what constitutes a race? Is it qualifying, heat, feature or the race date? In other words we had people bust out in qualifying and heat would that mean they would have to move up? Any time you are on track and the timer is running. That means that if you break out in Qualifying or any of the races for two race days, you will be moved up. We put the two race day stipulation on there because we all know from time to time the stars align and we all run faster than normal. But for those who are doing it every time out. It is time for a gentle push into the big boy club. Thanks, Carver Don't know which side of this to come down on....., like I said earlier, it'd sure be sad to see the bracket group dwindle in size....at all....even 1 single car. And one other point on this being such a hard and fast rule set in stone....., while I can see a 208 hp S2 bury 1.24.xx fairly often, people like Lane and Gary have broken out before and might stand to again but I don't see where a 120 bhp 4 cylinder should get any kind of "push" to go to GT3 and run 1/2 a lap down every race. Carver.....Lane mentioned this over the weekend but I don't know if it went any further than that but I think he had a great idea to keep the times within the brackets. Two words......spec tire. This plays into the hands of benefit to the track too if they are eventually going to be moving tires and also as a benefit to the drivers if y'all could find a way to come to an agreement on some kind of contingency program. I know the tire companies already do this so it would be no expense to the track's account. It'd be mandatory to run the spec tire to take advantage of the contingency. I mean, let's face it.....Hoosier and a couple of other select tires are good for 1-2 seconds around CGB and a tire like the Ra1 would cushion the break out ceiling. Since there's no green bracket anymore, maybe y'all could break red bracket into "unlimited" and "spec" depending on tire....? T
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ccarver
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 155
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Post by ccarver on Jan 11, 2010 13:59:20 GMT -6
I like the ideas. Lets look at the tires options that fit everyone best.
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Post by turbot on Jan 11, 2010 14:05:08 GMT -6
Have to admit T, this is the first time I have had the pleasure of racing with you and I have to admit, you did a great job, your boy however looked out the box. It took me a few laps to get by you and even longer to catch and pass Eon. His line is tight and if he doesn't bobble in two, I probably don't get around him without a little how do you say, thump! Fun run, just took to long to get my act together. Congradulations Lane and Gary for running up front the entire event. Chris Oh man, his head is swelling as I type...... ;D He nipped me for fastest lap (between us) by .200 for the weekend but in the feature, only by .014 sec., me finishing 2.0 seconds behind him at the line. We are usually very close on track and have finished as close as .200 sec. at checkers before. Wait until you see the videos he posts......, not that I need to make any more excuses given the horse I'm riding.... ;D but, you'll see in the vid, with absolutely no illegal modifications whatsoever, only some upper engine work that me and Eon did ourselves (all PCA legal).....he has to feather the throttle in a couple of places to keep from running into the back of Lane's car. Seriously, no chip, no header, no other than factory cam......nothin' except a good valve job and legal intake porting......and a creative legal exhaust. And oh man........that run he got on me down the straight after I jumped him a spot after Mike's spin on the feature start is unreal.......! Hey, while I'm at handing out praise.....thanks for racing fair and also props out to DC, who made a MASSIVE leap this weekend in fastest times and also consistency. I told him after qualy, that I thought at best, I might have been inching up on him and that panned out to be true. There was .200 sec. between me, DC and Troy in qualy. Those tires on the 007 seemed very understeery for the first few laps and only came in about midway through the session, DC's best laps came from mid-point to the end too and I think he set his best on the final lap in qualy and in the heat. The Ra1s aren't quite as fast but are consistent.....my bests usually coming around lap 4-6. T
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Post by turbot on Jan 11, 2010 14:13:33 GMT -6
I like the ideas. Lets look at the tires options that fit everyone best. Carver, ChrisW and Mike if you are reading. How about setting up a system of interests representation for the different groups. What I mean is - surely what concerns bracket runners might not mean a flying sh1t to the GT1 guys and likewise, the same for the SPEC Miata and open wheeled guys. I think it'd serve y'all well to have one democratically chosen representative from each group. Termed per year. Cuts down on all the at-track interference that y'all have to answer for while y'all are trying to race your own weekend. All concerns and communications would be directed through one central race group representative. T
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 11, 2010 16:19:42 GMT -6
T and Carver, 1) Beware the can of worms we create here. Breakout is there for a reason, that's to keep cars that DO occasionally run slightly faster than breakout from getting max points. The "add a lap for breakout" works fine and can really swing points if someone is walking on the tightrope of breakout time for the class. You open a can of worms by forcing people to bump classes. It's up to the driver to try hard in practice and tune his/her car for conditions as to not break out. As racers, we know that RACING 100% is fun. Anyone that gets out there in a faster car and rides around at 70% for an $8 trophy should just save thier entry fee money and buy trophies instead. 2) Spec tires don't seem like the answer either for a "bracket" class where "welcome to racing" is the philosphy. If someone wants to run the cheapest tires they can find to race, then that should be thier option and bracket class is the place for that. We need to be careful with the breakout rules for two reasons: 1) It makes it hard for someone who is on the bottom of one class to drop back into more competitive lower class levels. For example: someone running 1:23.5 all day in GT3 on good tires can't do anything to be more competitive without spending more money, so instead he wants to go back to to crappy tires and/or detuning the motor to be back running more competitive in red. This should be the driver's option. 2) Two-driver rental cars. Let's use Carver's car for example. If He runs 1:23.7 in it and his renter can only run 1:25 in it, then is the renter ALSO to be bumped because the car HAS BEEN FASTER two times in a season before? Like I said, can of worms, what we have works. To those Red bracket guys that broke out. Whoever ran 1:22.x welcome to the next level. The 1:23.x guys - go back to having fun in red bracket. Take a few degrees of timing out of it this time how about it? I say all this because I HAD A BLAST getting passed by Harold this weekend. I don't think that race would have been any more than a lapping session for me had he not passed me and gave me a heck of a race for 8 laps. Patrick
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Post by newlimbs on Jan 11, 2010 17:49:46 GMT -6
Did the race committee make the decision that twice over and you must move up? The reason I ask is after yesterdays race, I decided to go back to running take-offs, weight down if necessary and run Red bracket again. I am not willing to continue the financial commitment to become competitive in GT and was learning more in Bracket.
I do not want to screw up anyone's 2010 points in bracket, so would be willing to start in back and not run for points. My car can defiantly run in GT2, however my costs in tires and maintenance have skyrocketed, and as a driver I have not been competitive in the races. I plan on setting it up so I have to run the crap out of it to get to 1:24
Sustainability is one of the fundamental values in our series, and your decision (which is presented as independent) removes this for me. I tried to move up, it is obvious I was a better driver in Red.
Many drivers may have the same situation. I went from a 1:23.9999 break out to a 1:18.9999 break out and it I am not enjoying the racing near as much, nor the costs.
I think we need to reconsider before making this change
How do others feel?
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nine44s
I just want to go fast!
I <3 Porsches
Posts: 204
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Post by nine44s on Jan 11, 2010 18:54:50 GMT -6
Well our Internet is down today so I can't upload the videos from the weekend, but I just wanted to stop in and say thanks to everyone for the kind words. I had an awesome weekend and ran my fastest times to date (1.25.132) I had a blast running with Lane, Mike, and Gary in the heat race (up front for once). Unfortunatley my front end went away a litle after halfway so I lost touch with Lane and wasn't much competition for Mike and Gary when they came through Clint- it was a prettygood feeling, you'll see the small fist pump after getting on the straight on the first lap in second place lol. The feature race didn't treat me quite as well, I got burnt on the start, but had fun passing the ole man ;D and trying to hang with Chris on the 007. With all the kudos being given out Walt also broke into the 27's this weekend after showing up with a car that wouldn't start and missed warmup. Also T got ole Frankie into the 25's, he almost made me a little nervous in the feature
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 11, 2010 19:08:34 GMT -6
GOOD Point newlimbs.
Bracket racing works SO well that I think the Race Committee should reconsider the GT classes. Yeah it's cool to have a name and something to race against, but we have found that there is a very vast range of times even within these classes. I personally think that the GT2 and 3 classes should be broken up just like brackets and the displacement/power adder clause should be abolished.
To make it even we could look at data and jog ALL of the classes around so that they all end up with a fair amount of cars each.
My proposal for fastest allowable times in class would be something like: Blue = 1:30.00 Yellow = 1:27.00 Red = 1:24.00 GT3 = 1:21.00 GT2 = 1:19.00 GT1 = 0:00.00
Kinda nips our little "problem" in the bud, don't you think?
I think we could also rename the color classes to numbers so it would be easier to class cars externally with stickers right?
We could have the classes as T1-3 for Touring class and R1-3 for Race classes. (This way over the PA "T" and "R" are still distinguishable).
Comments / Concerns?
Patrick
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ccarver
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 155
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Post by ccarver on Jan 11, 2010 19:15:13 GMT -6
I just want to go fast!
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Post by newlimbs on Jan 11, 2010 19:36:35 GMT -6
That would work. GT 3 @ 1:21 would make for a fun group.
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troym
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 145
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Post by troym on Jan 11, 2010 19:46:00 GMT -6
Well it was great to get back on track this weekend after what seemed an eternal layoff. My arm held up fine although it was kinda sore this morning.
I got the CRX running alot better on Saturday after figuring out I was running way too lean. Wideband analyzer FTW! Development of the car is coming along nicely and there should be more improvement with the new ring and pinion and clutch installation.
Unfortunately, race day didn't turn out quite like I wanted when I got caught up in someone else's incident at the start of the heat race, but the car was able to continue through to the feature where I got to tag along behind the 944 father / son / zen master battle. I was coming for ya at the end there T!
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Post by turbot on Jan 12, 2010 8:14:09 GMT -6
Unfortunately, race day didn't turn out quite like I wanted when I got caught up in someone else's incident at the start of the heat race, but the car was able to continue through to the feature where I got to tag along behind the 944 father / son / zen master battle. And unfortunately for me....I had a bird's eye view. I was lucky enough to have enough brakes to stop short but you'll see in Eon's vid eventually that I steer right/left/right a little before deciding on just staying put on the line I was on. Lane and Eon got around to the left and filled that exit and Carver's driver filled the right gap. Just as I caught 1st gear to take off, I saw you with two wheels already off track trying to avoid and then the glancing contact. Needless to say, I was surprised to see you in my mirror later... I was coming for ya at the end there T! Yeah I know.....my best lap was on L6....., from then on I was driving 50% out of the rear view mirror... ;D T
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lane
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 164
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Post by lane on Jan 13, 2010 8:19:54 GMT -6
"2) Spec tires don't seem like the answer either for a "bracket" class where "welcome to racing" is the philosphy. If someone wants to run the cheapest tires they can find to race, then that should be thier option and bracket class is the place for that."
So why don't we make Toyo tires a spec tire? Or have a contingency program from someone like Toyo? Bracket classes are supposed to be an affordable race class but from what I have seen lately its gotten to where if your gonna be competitive you better have Motons, Ledas, new Hoosiers and serious hp to run in red.
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