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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 10:03:10 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 10:03:10 GMT -6
T- you ran a good race yesterday. I don't want to hear any more whining about your bum engine. It looked like it worked fine to me. Ah ha ha ha, the only reason I really stayed close to the lead 3-4 cars in the heat was because the pace up front was slowed to 1.26.xx because Henry Carter had some shoddy tires on and nobody could get around him due to the power of his S2 over us pee-ons...., I actually pushed 110% to catch up to the tail of that lead group and get away from Troy after he took a shot to get me between T4 & 5 when Hamza came around me from a dead last no qualy time position but I over cooked the tires in doing that and faded a couple of seconds from the lead battle near the end. My tire were up to 45psi when I came off and I had even compensated - 1 psi all around for buildup for the heat because I didn't think I got them up to full heat in qualy. Henry mounted new Hoosiers for the feature and went more than 2 full seconds quicker, broke out at 1.23.xx. Oil never went below 40 psi, so I'm going to run it again like that for the next race. It's a shame about Eon's radiator. You guys back in business for the Charity Challenge? Yep and Yep. New radiator will be in the car by then and we'll both be there. Bummer for him yeah, but he did get to run 5-6 laps in anger until the caution and his temps came up. It was interesting watching his car from behind, sliding on the water he was leaking......and also sliding myself trying to line him up for a pass....he pulled off soon after. He managed to nab me for fastest lap between us again though, 1.26.623 to 1.26.621... Also, I have a set of 245/50/15 R6's for sale. I will make a heck of a deal if anyone wants them. 75% rubber left. Good shape. Lane runs 15s sometimes and so does Walt. Walt was on the last of his current tires this weekend and might be your candidate for a quick sale with the Charity/PCA thing coming up quick. T
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 11:33:03 GMT -6
Post by melan45 on Mar 8, 2010 11:33:03 GMT -6
Things I learned from race #6
the red bracket is where the fun was at...close, competitive, and a bunch of great driving.
I am still haven't come down from all the action...the heat race was so close from start to finish. Wow...wish I had the camera rolling. If someone up front can pass me some video of the action I would be in debt to you.
T – I see you have a theory on why it was close...but personally for me I had a few chances to pass henry while he was in one of his power slides, but played it safe to conserve tire for final. I was on my nitto's last race. I think the track conditions were cooking our tires...denise was up front and his car was on fire all day long. You know he's not going to hold back.
I need to get some rubber on my car, so I don't have to drive so hard. The s2's(mike&henry) have some serious rubber. I really didn't pay too much attention to that until I got to follow from behind really close this weekend. Time to think about this for next season.
Learned how not to set pressures for a ever changing track...what was up? My car was plowing like a mule in the feature. I over cooked the front tires probably five laps in that race. Thank goodness for the 3 caution laps it allowed for my tires to cool down and it got me within striking distance of gary and I used the miata traffic to aid my pass on the straight to take fourth(aka second). He and I traded positions all evening long. Gary you owned me from 10-14 and especially in 4-5. those 944's are fun to watch.
Learned that the sentra can do four wheel slides through turn 3,8, and into 14...wow...slip angles were huge.
The defender ate up the inside of my shoulders\chest...have to figure out something to help with comfort.
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troym
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 145
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 11:42:42 GMT -6
Post by troym on Mar 8, 2010 11:42:42 GMT -6
Well needless to say I wasn't too thrilled about how the combined feature race went down after I misinterpreted the announcement for all spec miata and bracket drivers to report to grid. Silly me, I took it to mean "in your car" because I overheard Brent Mosing suggesting running a combined race a few minutes earlier and assumed the decision had been made so i was getting strapped in and missed the impromptu drivers meeting. The race chairman left me with the option of putting the car on the trailer and going home or starting at the back of the spec miata group which pretty much relegated me to last place in red bracket, barring breakouts or DNF's. I understand that Terry and Clint both tried to speak up for me at the meeting and I really appreciate that.
I started to just load up and go home, but then decided I paid to race so I might as well go ahead. I'm still questioning whether I made the right decision or not because I have never driven an entire race that angry before and I know I took chances that I normally wouldn't take trying to fight my way back up through the spec miatas. I probably won't be getting Christmas cards from a few of the SM drivers and I apologize if I messed up anyone's race.
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lane
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 164
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 11:48:39 GMT -6
Post by lane on Mar 8, 2010 11:48:39 GMT -6
What was the meeting about?
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 11:50:57 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 11:50:57 GMT -6
Things I learned from race #6 the red bracket is where the fun was at...close, competitive, and a bunch of great driving. I am still haven't come down from all the action...the heat race was so close from start to finish. Wow...wish I had the camera rolling. If someone up front can pass me some video of the action I would be in debt to you. T – I see you have a theory on why it was close...but personally for me I had a few chances to pass henry while he was in one of his power slides, but played it safe to conserve tire for final. I was on my nitto's last race. I think the track conditions were cooking our tires...denise was up front and his car was on fire all day long. You know he's not going to hold back. I need to get some rubber on my car, so I don't have to drive so hard. The s2's(mike&henry) have some serious rubber. I really didn't pay too much attention to that until I got to follow from behind really close this weekend. Time to think about this for next season. Learned how not to set pressures for a ever changing track...what was up? My car was plowing like a mule in the feature. I over cooked the front tires probably five laps in that race. Thank goodness for the 3 caution laps it allowed for my tires to cool down and it got me within striking distance of gary and I used the miata traffic to aid my pass on the straight to take fourth(aka second). He and I traded positions all evening long. Gary you owned me from 10-14 and especially in 4-5. those 944's are fun to watch. Learned that the sentra can do four wheel slides through turn 3,8, and into 14...wow...slip angles were huge. The defender ate up the inside of my shoulders\chest...have to figure out something to help with comfort. I hear ya....I remember somebody (maybe you) saying before the race that you would be conserving the tires at first. I tell you what.......from my vantage point during the feature, you were doing a lot of tire locking. Almost sure the smoke was from your car. On the pressure setup, yeah, I usually use practice to get the tire up to temp but I missed practice.....only did about 5 laps in qualy so just as a safety precaution, I dropped the pressures even 1 more psi to give me a little headroom figuring that the sun was coming out and the surface would be hotter = extended run time over the little I ran in qualy. Still wasn't enough, tires came up 5 psi over my normal sweet spot. Not so much rise (adjusted after heat) in the feature but those cool pace laps had me skating on ice on the restart. It's good to keep notes on available tire data sheets to reference for times like those. We have some collected when trying to dial in the BFGs that Eon runs.....time of day, ambient and track temp, etc., etc. When you have this kind of data from previous races/conditions to draw upon, you'll be ahead of the guessers. You could be right about "theory".....but Dennis and Hamza started at the back which affected the front pace in the heat and my point is bared out by the fact that Henry went into break out mode later in the feature in basically the same conditions as the heat so his slower 1.26 heat pace definitely kept the front nice and bunched in my opinion.... Was good for me anyway to keep the leaders so close. Bummer on the feature restart...., y'all jumped a couple of Miatas that were between Dennis up front and the rest of us....., y'all got away quick when it took me a lap to get around them. By that time....y'all were gone. T
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troym
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 145
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 11:52:08 GMT -6
Post by troym on Mar 8, 2010 11:52:08 GMT -6
What was the meeting about? To inform everyone about the decision to run a combined race with a split start. There was a driver roll call and since I was getting in my car instead of there I lost my starting position.
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 11:58:34 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 11:58:34 GMT -6
What was the meeting about? Just to discuss the double run group, Miatas and bracket on course together and vote on grouped start or staggered start. T
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 12:21:25 GMT -6
Post by Fast Guys on Mar 8, 2010 12:21:25 GMT -6
What was the meeting about? To inform everyone about the decision to run a combined race with a split start. There was a driver roll call and since I was getting in my car instead of there I lost my starting position. I think they are traveling down a dangerous road when they "punish" paying customers for misinterpreting the already muddled PA system. When there are procedural changes made, Chris and Co. need to send somebody around to inform the participants until the PA system is working well enough to take on the task. As of right now, it sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher.
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 12:30:31 GMT -6
Post by Flying Tiger on Mar 8, 2010 12:30:31 GMT -6
TroyM, I was yelled at and TOLD that I would start at the end of the Spec Miata pack because I did the same thing you did-reported to grid IN CAR when the chief mogul "intended" that we come to an uncommon site (grid) for an uncommon meeting of "drivers" there, instead of having drivers meet at the DRIVER'S LOUNGE [which obviously would have been without car]. So we did not understand what the Chief Mogul meant and yet WE [not he] were penalized. And he wasn't very civil about it, either. Obviously 2 out of 20 drivers=10% of the drivers did not understand when he MEANT, so whose fault is that? His or ours? Cool Hand Luke: "It appears that we have a failure to communicate." To me, it was a raw deal-though I only lost one position which Toce would have quickly snapped up anyway-but it was rudeness uncalled for, IMHO. If penalties must be meted out, common courtesy calls for common courtesy. I paid a lot money and made lots of efforts to run that race without someone sucking the fun out of it because HE failed to communicate. NOW, all that being said: he lost a car to a pile of tires and I'm sure other things went wrong for him. He has a lot of responsibility and when things go as wrong as they did on the track yesterday, I am willing to cut him some slack. Although I don't think he needs to go about handing out penalties the way he did, he's still a great guy whom I respect. I also credit him for giving me, a mere rookie, some really good advice. How about a better PA system that doesn't drop parts of words and sounds like static a lot of the time? Maybe that would help the communications. Best of luck to all.
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 13:07:17 GMT -6
Post by harrisracing on Mar 8, 2010 13:07:17 GMT -6
Well, I have to agree that if there was a non-standard procedural change like that, then people should not be PENALIZED for it. Missing a STANDARD meeting or standard procedure...sure, but not for that. I agree with Troy 100%. I also have to agree with Reggie on this that there were external stresses involved and hasty decisions were probable made, but that's why we usually have a race "committee" and it should involve more than just one person making decisions and implementing changes. What would be so hard with doing roll call at the impromptu meeting then hunting down the 2 driver's that didn't make it INSTEAD of messing with their race season?? Another confusing point: In GT Feature it was announced when we were all lined up at grid that we would be restarting single file. WHILE WE WERE ON TRACK WARMING TIRES the pace car started making strange hand signals which I figured out were to go 2 wide on restart...well I kept signaling and no one else but Boozer got the message. Still...out on track is NOT the time to be making decisions like that. It seems we are SO close to getting perfection despite the incidents on track, schedule, etc. yet the devil in the details is causing our community major pains internally. Again, I don't want to offend people. I don't want Chris to feel like he's being attacked here as I understand that he was just trying to get the racing back in order safely and quickly. I am offering suggestions to help. I'd even venture to recommend people for backup race committee positions (since Carver wasn't there) and I would offer to vote on personalities that I think could fit that bill as well (Mosing seems like he would be a GREAT backup RC member btw). Patrick
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 15:18:06 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 15:18:06 GMT -6
Guys guys....I feel ya, listen, I took a jab in the company of all of the attending drivers for speaking up for Troy (sorry RS, I didn't know you hadn't heard until I saw you drive up on grid buckled in and ready to go). Chris smoothed it out with me after the session even though there was no excuse or explanation due or expected. There was a lot going on at the time and Chris' main intent was to get things going asap to get us the most track time that was possible with the unforeseen delay. Maybe as drivers, we could have realized ahead of time that the delay was going to alter the normal schedule.....and been paying closer attention.... Reggie is right.....we are customers. Customers for a product....track time. And in hind sight, all that Chris and Kent were doing revolved around getting us (you) the amount of product that you paid for. I think they did the right thing.....and y'all KNOW that I'd be the first one to raise my hand or speak out if I thought it wasn't. There were mumblings about the SM/racket grouping going around the pits and chronologically, that's where the problem started. This was already on everyone's mind and when the announcement was made - "All spec miata AND bracket drivers to the grid", everyone took it for granted that it meant "in your car". I myself jumped in and had my helmet on when I got the clarification. Yes, the PA sucked. There is a simple system that they use at TWS that I hope Chris and Kent will consider for the new circuit.....not PA dependent. There is a simple flag pole near grid out that the grid control person uses to raise a colored flag for the run group that is expected on grid (our 10 minute call). All you have to do, even from the farthest reaches of the paddock, is keep an eye on the flag color to know the status of the schedule. Don't know if it would have helped in this situation but "unscheduled driver meetings" on the grid are not unprecedented and I'm pretty sure they will happen again. T
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 15:39:59 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 15:39:59 GMT -6
What would be so hard with doing roll call at the impromptu meeting then hunting down the 2 driver's that didn't make it INSTEAD of messing with their race season?? I'd even venture to recommend people for backup race committee positions (since Carver wasn't there) and I would offer to vote on personalities that I think could fit that bill as well (Mosing seems like he would be a GREAT backup RC member btw). Patrick There was a roll call Patrick, the ones that weren't present at roll call were the ones penalized. Your second point, and I mentioned this before, but I think it's a good idea for each sub-set of racers, i.e., SM, Bracket, etc. to have a representative so Chris, Carver, Kent, etc. don't have to do the leg work of finding each and every participant. New rules, scheduling etc. can all be presented to one single representative of each group and it would be their duty to communicate these to their respective racers. I don't know if it would have helped in this "one-off" situation though. I can say this though......if we have made it through the entire season, and the only potential fault of Race Control was this particular situation, we have a lot to be thankful for. There is NO lee-way in any other organization.....PCA, SCCA, whatever......you snooze you lose. This incident kinda prepares you for the unexpected if you venture out of town for an event because I promise, nobody is there to babysit. I spoke out for Troy *(and indirectly for Reggie) because I thought the communications about the meeting were not clear enough.....basically, that's all that needs addressing so there won't be a repeat. As far as on grid impromptu meetings, we had one of those earlier this year so that shouldn't have been totally unexpected and definitely was not unprecedented. T
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 15:52:56 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 15:52:56 GMT -6
And heck yeah....I type fast.... ;D
T
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 16:03:46 GMT -6
Post by turbot on Mar 8, 2010 16:03:46 GMT -6
T- you ran a good race yesterday. I thought I had dreamed this, that's why I missed it earlier, cough, cough, getting back on topic.... I don't know whether it was disbelief or maybe I thought you were shook up after coming off the GT feature and didn't have all your senses back in check yet but I thought this was what you were saying in person near my car Sunday too but I guess I didn't acknowledge your comment because it just didn't register for some reason.... ;D T
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Race 6
Mar 8, 2010 16:18:34 GMT -6
Post by harrisracing on Mar 8, 2010 16:18:34 GMT -6
T- you ran a good race yesterday. I thought I had dreamed this, that's why I missed it earlier, cough, cough, getting back on topic.... I don't know whether it was disbelief or maybe I thought you were shook up after coming off the GT feature and didn't have all your senses back in check yet but I thought this was what you were saying in person near my car Sunday too but I guess I didn't acknowledge your comment because it just didn't register for some reason.... ;D T I think the rest of Andy's sentence should say something like "...but where's my dollar?" (had to poke it with stick).
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