Brent Mosing
I want to race
Driver of all, master on none
Posts: 25
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Post by Brent Mosing on Sept 12, 2010 16:32:30 GMT -6
Skip Barber say's: The "Heel Toe" name was given when pedals weren't adjustable and you put either the heel or toe of the right foot on the brake and used the other part of the right foot to tap the accelerator in an attempt to match revs for the downshift. For example if you use the ball of your foot on the brake, you would need to twist your foot like you are pigion toed to get the heel over to the accelerator. Skip Barber taught us to put the ball of your right foot on the brake, the right side of your right foot over or on the accelerator during the braking period. Yur foot stays in a vertical, or natural position. When you get in the skip barber car for the first time and they would adjust the car to fit you, they would have you push the brake down hard. right at the bottom of the brake pedal travel is where you should have first contact with the accelerator pedal with the right side of your foot. The reason for this is when you threshold brake it is easy to roll your foot over to the right to rev the motor. If the pedal is adjusted too high you will accidentally hit the gas pedal while braking. If it is adjusted too low you will not get the revs up enough to match revs during downshift. In our prouction cars you can add aftermarket plates to the pedals to get this adjustment right. Ultimate pedals is one brand I have been impressed with. They are aluminum and produce good grip. The Miata's have a narrow accelerator that is hard to reach with the right side of your foot. You can get a wider plate that puts the pedals closer together, making the heel toe process much easier. My porsche has an accelerator pedal that is wide at the bottom, allowing true heel toe (toe on brake, heel on accelerator below) without having to twist your foot over to accomplish a heel toe downshift. Any way you do it, heel toe downshifting is an important part of the braking zone and if you are a trail braker it would be even more important to get it done right.
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944racer
I just want to go fast!
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Posts: 152
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Post by 944racer on Sept 17, 2010 8:14:10 GMT -6
I'd tell you what I do...but then I'd have to shoot you ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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Post by turbot on Sept 17, 2010 8:56:54 GMT -6
I'd tell you what I do...but then I'd have to shoot you ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png) Cat's out of the bag G-Man. That old "flashing your brake lights" all around the circuit to keep drivers second guessing IS old as dirt..... ;D T
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lane
I just want to go fast!
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Post by lane on Sept 17, 2010 9:55:43 GMT -6
Ha... I like that! ;D Gotta admit that is funny Gary. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by turbot on Sept 17, 2010 10:22:55 GMT -6
Ha... I like that! ;D Gotta admit that is funny Gary. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Hee hee...., it's all cool, G-Man can't shoot anybody anyway...., the only pistol he has is rusted solid.... ;D T
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944racer
I just want to go fast!
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Post by 944racer on Sept 17, 2010 12:44:43 GMT -6
Ha... I like that! ;D Gotta admit that is funny Gary. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Yeah...guess I set myself up for that one. ![:-[](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png) Ol' T probably didn't even break out a sweat thinking that up ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) BTW - I put the ball of my foot on the right edge of the brake pedal and roll over to the accelerator. But I spent 2 years at DE's and 2 1/2 years racing before I even tried to heel toe. I got pretty good at the old clutch and grab as T explained it, but there are several long tracks where I was losing tenths of a second at many corners, especially where you had to downshift two gears. When I finally tried it, it took all of about two sessions to get it down, and the difference was very noticeable. Left foot braking, on the other hand, I've been doing forever. If I'm not shifting, I'm covering the brake with my left foot. It comes in handy, especially at CGB, as Carver so aptly explained. The only track I've been to that I literally never left foot brake is Road America. I'm shifting into every full corner and full throttle everywhere else. EeeeeHaaaa ;D
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944racer
I just want to go fast!
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Posts: 152
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Post by 944racer on Sept 17, 2010 12:46:54 GMT -6
Ha... I like that! ;D Gotta admit that is funny Gary. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Hee hee...., it's all cool, G-Man can't shoot anybody anyway...., the only pistol he has is rusted solid.... ;D T But I do have a pretty mean pellet gun for shooting dogs, and snakes (T)rackside ![:-*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/kiss.png)
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gmoran
I raced Once.
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Posts: 85
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Post by gmoran on Sept 17, 2010 14:03:39 GMT -6
I've only had a chance to really practice in my street car (while trying not to break anything), haven't had the RX-7 on the track enough, but in the mustang, I brake with my toes and rotate my heel upwards to the right and forwards and then back to catch the bottom of the accel pedal and blip it. It seems like it becomes more of a muscle memory thing than actually trying to hit a target RPM. I don't think about a target rpm mark I am trying to hit but rather just feel how far my heel goes into the pedal. Didn't really know what heel-toe was good for till I started locking up my rears on hard downshifts, I see the benefits now.
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Post by turbot on Sept 17, 2010 14:36:11 GMT -6
Ha... I like that! ;D Gotta admit that is funny Gary. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I've been to that I literally never left foot brake is Road America. I'm shifting into every full corner and full throttle everywhere else. EeeeeHaaaa ;D G, I must have missed it in the email chain but I sure was anxiously waiting for that detailed RA recap.... ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) T
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Post by turbot on Sept 17, 2010 14:47:54 GMT -6
I've only had a chance to really practice in my street car (while trying not to break anything), haven't had the RX-7 on the track enough, but in the mustang, I brake with my toes and rotate my heel upwards to the right and forwards and then back to catch the bottom of the accel pedal and blip it. It seems like it becomes more of a muscle memory thing than actually trying to hit a target RPM. I don't think about a target rpm mark I am trying to hit but rather just feel how far my heel goes into the pedal. Didn't really know what heel-toe was good for till I started locking up my rears on hard downshifts, I see the benefits now. You really just end up over thinking the heel/toe thing and it'll come so natural when you get it, you'll never believe what the road block was that was holding you up before. On the revs, heck, I can drive lap after lap with no clutch pedal at all....rev matching the up and down changes. As long as the clutch depress switch is disabled, I could jump in a dead car from the paddock, run a heat race and get the car back to the parking spot and never touch the clutch once. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png) T
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Post by turbot on Sept 18, 2010 7:28:06 GMT -6
![](http://www.honda.co.jp/sportscar/enjoy/img/e5-image1.gif) T
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troym
I just want to go fast!
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Post by troym on Sept 18, 2010 8:13:39 GMT -6
I've only had a chance to really practice in my street car (while trying not to break anything), haven't had the RX-7 on the track enough, but in the mustang, I brake with my toes and rotate my heel upwards to the right and forwards and then back to catch the bottom of the accel pedal and blip it. It seems like it becomes more of a muscle memory thing than actually trying to hit a target RPM. I don't think about a target rpm mark I am trying to hit but rather just feel how far my heel goes into the pedal. Didn't really know what heel-toe was good for till I started locking up my rears on hard downshifts, I see the benefits now. Garrett, I bent the gas pedal linkage in the RX-7 a little to get the gas & brake pedals in the same plane and also moved the gas a little closer. It's not that hard to remove if you want to tweak it some.
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gmoran
I raced Once.
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Post by gmoran on Sept 21, 2010 14:21:23 GMT -6
I've only had a chance to really practice in my street car (while trying not to break anything), haven't had the RX-7 on the track enough, but in the mustang, I brake with my toes and rotate my heel upwards to the right and forwards and then back to catch the bottom of the accel pedal and blip it. It seems like it becomes more of a muscle memory thing than actually trying to hit a target RPM. I don't think about a target rpm mark I am trying to hit but rather just feel how far my heel goes into the pedal. Didn't really know what heel-toe was good for till I started locking up my rears on hard downshifts, I see the benefits now. Garrett, I bent the gas pedal linkage in the RX-7 a little to get the gas & brake pedals in the same plane and also moved the gas a little closer. It's not that hard to remove if you want to tweak it some. Looks to be set up just right. My foot fits perfectly to hit the brake and bump the gas. All I have to do is twitch my foot to the right unlike the mustang, which, having the pedals further apart causes me to have to swing my heel.
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Post by turbot on Sept 22, 2010 19:06:15 GMT -6
Troy, you racing this weekend....?
Don't see you listed at CR.
Clint....?
T
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