nine44s
I just want to go fast!
I <3 Porsches
Posts: 204
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Post by nine44s on Jan 26, 2010 13:43:16 GMT -6
"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and your experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton, speaking in 1991 I was looking for the video but couldn't find it
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 26, 2010 13:56:45 GMT -6
Andy, give it up. Apparently it can't be taught.
Patrick
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Post by turbot on Jan 26, 2010 14:18:27 GMT -6
"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and your experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton, speaking in 1991 I was looking for the video but couldn't find it " your mind power".... ..., Wonder if Senna knew Ross....? ;D The voice overlay is on a Monaco qualy session. T
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 26, 2010 14:23:30 GMT -6
"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and your experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton, speaking in 1991 I was looking for the video but couldn't find it A great quote from a great driver who obviously knows the power of "mind control". Have you ever read the part where he died from a fatal crash because he went past the limit? Not to downplay one of the best drivers ever, but yes, pro's pass the limit too. Patrick
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Post by turbot on Jan 26, 2010 14:24:57 GMT -6
Andy, give it up. Apparently it can't be taught. Patrick We're still waiting for "it" to be defined. Well, I'm not....but "it" might be useful to some... ;D Even Andy has given up on the mind coach angle, now he's down to what I think he's describing as understanding the mechanical and dynamics of the car's components. Erm....no use to even go there. I have that one covered too... ;D T
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Post by turbot on Jan 26, 2010 14:28:55 GMT -6
"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and your experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton, speaking in 1991 I was looking for the video but couldn't find it A great quote from a great driver who obviously knows the power of "mind control". Have you ever read the part where he died from a fatal crash because he went past the limit? Not to downplay one of the best drivers ever, but yes, pro's pass the limit too. Patrick Uh....he died at Tamburello corner due to a mechanical failure with his Williams' steering column, not going past the limit. Michael Schumacher was following in his Benetton and testified that Senna never even made a correction attempt. T
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nine44s
I just want to go fast!
I <3 Porsches
Posts: 204
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Post by nine44s on Jan 26, 2010 14:56:30 GMT -6
"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' As soon as you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and your experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton, speaking in 1991 I was looking for the video but couldn't find it A great quote from a great driver who obviously knows the power of "mind control". Have you ever read the part where he died from a fatal crash because he went past the limit? Not to downplay one of the best drivers ever, but yes, pro's pass the limit too. Patrick "Senna did not like the position of the steering column relative to his seating position and had repeatedly asked for it to be changed. At Imola Senna found himself in a car with his team's engineers struggling to cope and adapt to the ban of active suspension. Patrick Head and Adrian Newey agreed to Senna's request to lengthen the FW16's steering column, but there was no time to manufacture a longer steering shaft. The existing shaft was instead cut, extended by inserting a smaller diameter piece of tubing and welded together with reinforcing plates. Many surmise, based on comparing hours of onboard video footage from Brazil and Imola that the movement of the steering wheel during the race at Imola was completely abnormal. Senna on his final lap is seen turning the wheel left to full lock with no movement of the front wheels. Others have raised suspicion at what can clearly be seen on the onboard footage as Senna looking down at his steering wheel seconds before entering Tamburello. Senna's distinctive helmet The irony of the on board video available from Senna's car is that the final seconds of footage are missing. The approximately 1.5 seconds of remaining video which would have provided a definite answer as to the cause of Senna's death were lost in an act of astounding coincidence when the TV race director decided to switch camera signals at the very instant the Williams started to leave the track. Perhaps unsurprisingly, numerous rumours abound that the remaining 1.5 seconds are not lost and reportedly show Senna's steering wheel clearly coming off in his hands as his car is leaving the track. In addition to this, the video shown in the Court Room on May 14, 1997 stopped 0.9 seconds before the impact [6], causing numerous questions. Although allegations exist that this video has been seen by a number of people at the top level of motorsport, there is no evidence to support its existence."
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 26, 2010 15:16:30 GMT -6
A great quote from a great driver who obviously knows the power of "mind control". Have you ever read the part where he died from a fatal crash because he went past the limit? Not to downplay one of the best drivers ever, but yes, pro's pass the limit too. Patrick "Senna did not like the position of the steering column relative to his seating position and had repeatedly asked for it to be changed. At Imola Senna found himself in a car with his team's engineers struggling to cope and adapt to the ban of active suspension. Patrick Head and Adrian Newey agreed to Senna's request to lengthen the FW16's steering column, but there was no time to manufacture a longer steering shaft. The existing shaft was instead cut, extended by inserting a smaller diameter piece of tubing and welded together with reinforcing plates. Many surmise, based on comparing hours of onboard video footage from Brazil and Imola that the movement of the steering wheel during the race at Imola was completely abnormal. Senna on his final lap is seen turning the wheel left to full lock with no movement of the front wheels. Others have raised suspicion at what can clearly be seen on the onboard footage as Senna looking down at his steering wheel seconds before entering Tamburello. Senna's distinctive helmet The irony of the on board video available from Senna's car is that the final seconds of footage are missing. The approximately 1.5 seconds of remaining video which would have provided a definite answer as to the cause of Senna's death were lost in an act of astounding coincidence when the TV race director decided to switch camera signals at the very instant the Williams started to leave the track. Perhaps unsurprisingly, numerous rumours abound that the remaining 1.5 seconds are not lost and reportedly show Senna's steering wheel clearly coming off in his hands as his car is leaving the track. In addition to this, the video shown in the Court Room on May 14, 1997 stopped 0.9 seconds before the impact [6], causing numerous questions. Although allegations exist that this video has been seen by a number of people at the top level of motorsport, there is no evidence to support its existence." I'm not going to argue conspiracy theories with you - He died in a racecar, It happens. Ratzenberger died the day before - it is QUITE POSSIBLE that he wasn't in tip-top mental shape to be setting fastest laps in an F1 car that day - who knows? Here is a citation from the same place you pulled your excerpt from: To many within the F1 world including some drivers of that era who had raced at Imola, the conclusions drawn from low tyre pressure as a cause of the accident seem implausible. Telemetry recorded that Senna took the bend at 306 km/h (190 mph) on lap 6 with cold tyres. The information released in the trial stated that Senna started the race with 86 litres of fuel and had planned a two stop race strategy, one fewer than Schumacher, who started the race lighter on a 3 stop strategy. The theory that low tyre pressure caused the crash was defeated in court when Stefano Stefanini, head of Bologna's traffic accident unit, testified that Senna, with a heavier car than Michael Schumacher and Damon Hill, recorded a time of 1.24.887 on the sixth lap, Senna's only lap at race speed and the 3rd fastest lap of the race. Michele Alboreto and other drivers of the era claimed that given Senna's lap time, his tyres would have been at race temperature by the 7th lap and could not have been a factor in the crash. Some drivers indicated that Senna's crash was due to driver error. Michael Schumacher, who had followed closely behind the Brazilian before the crash, gave the following account at the subsequent winners' press conference: I saw that his car was already touching quite a lot at the back on the lap before, the car was very nervous in this corner, and he nearly lost it. On the next lap he did lose it. The car touched with the rear skids, went a bit sideways, and he just lost it.[4] Damon Hill, Senna's teammate at the time of his death, had this to say in an interview given on the subject 10 years later: I am convinced that he made a mistake, but many people will never believe that he could. Why not? He made many mistakes in his career. I have listened to and read endless theories about why, or how, he could have crashed on such a 'simple' corner like Tamburello. No-one other than Ayrton Senna and I know what it was like to drive that car, through that corner, in that race, on that day, on cold tyres. He was identified with pushing to the limit and beyond. It was not the fault of anyone else that he kept his foot flat when he could have lifted.[5]
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Post by turbot on Jan 26, 2010 16:06:44 GMT -6
Senna had a lot of fans Patrick....me for one, so there are a lot of conspiracy theories, etc.
I still have original Senna memorabilia, a few magazines with him on the cover, etc.
The only other valid theory is the low tire pressure thing but the tires would have come up after the lap that Schumacher describes, not gotten worse.
As you know probably, ride height is very precise on an F1 car so all of the cars should have suffered near the same fate if it were a ride height/pressure problem.
Anyway....Damon Hill's comments can be taken with a grain of salt.
Senna was destroying him in the same car.
Also, a point to note was, every motorsports pundit on the planet expected Senna to dominate 1994,
1) Prost had cruised to a WDC the year before in virtually the same car less active suspension and Mansell had dominated the previous.
2) Schumacher was 30 points to -0- ahead of Senna going in if memory serves and Senna was desperate for a good result.
The Italian courts confiscated the car and charged Williams F1 at fault in connection with Senna's death (the steering issue).....this was later altered somehow but that fact remains.
Anyways....suspension intrusion into the helmet killed him, which led to the higher cockpit sides and wheel tethers from that point on.
I watched it live and recorded the race.
I have every F1 race since 1991 on either VHS or DVD up until Massa had his injury last season and I quit watching.
I have a personal friend in the UK who was authorized to write a book on Senna by Ayrton's sister herself and if I haven't deleted it over the years....probably have an email from the book author, thanking me personally for the letter that I wrote (and he forwarded to the Senna family) on behalf of his knowledge and admiration of Ayrton Senna.....the letter, according to my friend, partly responsible for him getting the authorization. The family was very selective at the time to protect Ayrton's legacy.
So yeah.....you can chalk this up as another thing that I "know everything about"...... ;D
T
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Post by turbot on Jan 26, 2010 16:07:53 GMT -6
That last reply was just for you Carver..... T
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Post by Fast Guys on Jan 26, 2010 16:12:42 GMT -6
A great quote from a great driver who obviously knows the power of "mind control". Have you ever read the part where he died from a fatal crash because he went past the limit? Not to downplay one of the best drivers ever, but yes, pro's pass the limit too. Patrick "Senna did not like the position of the steering column relative to his seating position and had repeatedly asked for it to be changed. At Imola Senna found himself in a car with his team's engineers struggling to cope and adapt to the ban of active suspension. Patrick Head and Adrian Newey agreed to Senna's request to lengthen the FW16's steering column, but there was no time to manufacture a longer steering shaft. The existing shaft was instead cut, extended by inserting a smaller diameter piece of tubing and welded together with reinforcing plates. Many surmise, based on comparing hours of onboard video footage from Brazil and Imola that the movement of the steering wheel during the race at Imola was completely abnormal. Senna on his final lap is seen turning the wheel left to full lock with no movement of the front wheels. Others have raised suspicion at what can clearly be seen on the onboard footage as Senna looking down at his steering wheel seconds before entering Tamburello. Senna's distinctive helmet The irony of the on board video available from Senna's car is that the final seconds of footage are missing. The approximately 1.5 seconds of remaining video which would have provided a definite answer as to the cause of Senna's death were lost in an act of astounding coincidence when the TV race director decided to switch camera signals at the very instant the Williams started to leave the track. Perhaps unsurprisingly, numerous rumours abound that the remaining 1.5 seconds are not lost and reportedly show Senna's steering wheel clearly coming off in his hands as his car is leaving the track. In addition to this, the video shown in the Court Room on May 14, 1997 stopped 0.9 seconds before the impact [6], causing numerous questions. Although allegations exist that this video has been seen by a number of people at the top level of motorsport, there is no evidence to support its existence." If he was turning the wheel to full lock and not getting any input to the wheels on the final lap, why did he try to continue racing? Broken steering doesn't fix itself. So Senna agrees that driving is a mental game. Let me see if I understand now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you are saying that driving is mental, but some people are better mentally than others and there is no reason to work on it?
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 26, 2010 16:27:21 GMT -6
Senna had a lot of fans Patrick....me for one, so there are a lot of conspiracy theories, etc. I still have original Senna memorabilia, a few magazines with him on the cover, etc. The only other valid theory is the low tire pressure thing but the tires would have come up after the lap that Schumacher describes, not gotten worse. As you know probably, ride height is very precise on an F1 car so all of the cars should have suffered near the same fate if it were a ride height/pressure problem. Anyway....Damon Hill's comments can be taken with a grain of salt. Senna was destroying him in the same car. Also, a point to note was, every motorsports pundit on the planet expected Senna to dominate 1994, 1) Prost had cruised to a WDC the year before in virtually the same car less active suspension and Mansell had dominated the previous. 2) Schumacher was 30 points to -0- ahead of Senna going in if memory serves and Senna was desperate for a good result. The Italian courts confiscated the car and charged Williams F1 at fault in connection with Senna's death (the steering issue).....this was later altered somehow but that fact remains. Anyways....suspension intrusion into the helmet killed him, which led to the higher cockpit sides and wheel tethers from that point on. I watched it live and recorded the race. I have every F1 race since 1991 on either VHS or DVD up until Massa had his injury last season and I quit watching. I have a personal friend in the UK who was authorized to write a book on Senna by Ayrton's sister herself and if I haven't deleted it over the years....probably have an email from the book author, thanking me personally for the letter that I wrote (and he forwarded to the Senna family) on behalf of his knowledge and admiration of Ayrton Senna.....the letter, according to my friend, partly responsible for him getting the authorization. The family was very selective at the time to protect Ayrton's legacy. So yeah.....you can chalk this up as another thing that I "know everything about"...... ;D T Definitions of delusion on the Web: * (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary * a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea; "he has delusions of competence"; "his dreams of vast wealth are a hallucination" * the act of deluding; deception by creating illusory ideas wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn T, FYI , the "it" is You. Patrick
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Post by harrisracing on Jan 26, 2010 16:38:25 GMT -6
More information:
1) Ayrton's team ran more fuel in expectations of 2 pitstops instead of 3 as opposed to other teams that day. More weight = lower ride height / ability to handle bumps.
2) The repaired patches of concrete on turn in questions could have been a factor with ride height and grip.
3) Running the 3rd fastest lap of the day in the first 7 laps indicates trying too hard on cold tires.
4) Micheal Schumacher watched this happen and from videos that I have seen it appears that Ayrton is either lifting or something is scraping under the car as he goes through the turn (sparks or flashing from behind are seen in footage). Schumacher explained this as posted previously.
5) Ratzenberger dies the day before - this will ALWAYS be a factor in someone's mind - especially to someone riding with that person's flag in the car in preparations to honor them with a win.
6) Tire Pressure / Temp issues.
7) The steering wheel cut, chop, reweld. What kind of racecar mechanics do you think wouldn't be able to get a critical weld right after getting so many other things right on the whole car? this part breaking at speed is much less likely to happen than upon impact with wall at 135 mph.
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lane
I just want to go fast!
Posts: 164
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Post by lane on Jan 26, 2010 17:32:36 GMT -6
Amazingly this all started by Eon posting a video!!!
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Post by turbot on Jan 26, 2010 18:06:24 GMT -6
If he was turning the wheel to full lock and not getting any input to the wheels on the final lap, why did he try to continue racing? Broken steering doesn't fix itself. So Senna agrees that driving is a mental game. Let me see if I understand now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you are saying that driving is mental, but some people are better mentally than others and there is no reason to work on it? LOL, Andy...you aint even in the game. Reread what he posted again.....s-l-o-w-l-y this time. T
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