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Post by turbot on Sept 2, 2011 12:51:48 GMT -6
Johnny Herbert...., is that you....?
;D
T
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Post by Flying Tiger on Sept 2, 2011 16:51:43 GMT -6
Johnny Herbert started racing in '74 at age 10, and like him, I entered racing in 2009 at age 90....  Other than that, we have little in common. ;D I'm the pinball still bumping around the pinball machine trying to find the set up for Hoosiers, but I thought I would share the meager info that I have discovered. Whas wrong wid dat, T? Hmmmm? Most of us SM drivers know ZIP about Hoosiers. You, on the other hand, T, know lots about them. What can YOU tell us, sir? Com'n let us hear from you, even though your tires are a different size and are on a different car. |
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Post by turbot on Sept 2, 2011 22:40:11 GMT -6
Johnny Herbert started racing in '74 at age 10, and like him, I entered racing in 2009 at age 90.... Other than that, we have little in common. ;D I'm the pinball still bumping around the pinball machine trying to find the set up for Hoosiers, but I thought I would share the meager info that I have discovered. Whas wrong wid dat, T? Hmmmm? Most of us SM drivers know ZIP about Hoosiers. You, on the other hand, T, know lots about them. What can YOU tell us, sir? Com'n let us hear from you, even though your tires are a different size and are on a different car. Hoosier....rich man racer band aid Reg.....usually stacked at least 8-12 high and still stickered next to the motor coaches with the fancy trailers.... We're budget racers..., Unfortunate for y'all that Toyos are too short in supply, way more bang for the buck. Fortunate though that your sizes aren't $250 a pop. Re. Herbert, just a dig about your request for other people's data. The people who would get that joke out of the 1-200 members and guests that visit here, to the best of my knowledge, would number....oh....about three. Herbert was British, so any web search on the topic would be heavily biased towards Herbert, but the short story is, Johnny Herbert could not cope with team mate Michael Schumacher in equal equipment at Benetton in the mid-90s so he made claims that he was denied Schumacher's telemetry/data. Here's a part of a documentary, comparing Herbert and Schumacher driving styles that explains the difference with use of telemetry. As underbody aero and diffuser technology slowly crept back into F1 after the earlier "ground effect" ban, Schumacher's throttle control style played a large part in his dominance. Some telemetry examples from this era (and later Ferrari) even show no throttle lift at all, using only the brake as to not upset exhaust flow, which at the time, exited into the floor and diffuser. Herbert's style of abruptly lifting upset the aero and made the car feel unstable, a catch 22 for Herbert.  www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtaV_cOGgTM Read up on the "blown diffuser", the latest technology, innovated last year by Adrian Newey on the dominant Red Bull RB6 F1, banned this year, then come visit and see the exhaust exited diffuser I built 4 years ago....  Exhaust has measured and predictable energy.....and it's a free by product of internal combustion....., but what do I know....!? ;D T |
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Post by turbot on Sept 2, 2011 22:51:00 GMT -6
BTW Reggie, of the top 4 red bracket championship finishers for 2010,
Eon - BFG G Force R1
Hamza - Kumho/Hoosier
Dennis Paul - BFG G Force R1
Smith (Carver's car) - Kumho V710
Other notables, who would have been in the top 3 with more attendance,
Rebstock - Nitto NTo1
Clint Melancon - Nitto - NTo1
Lane Sutton - Toyo Ra1
T
Back to the topic at hand though.....,
" Testing for Hoosier air pressures"
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Post by Flying Tiger on Sept 3, 2011 5:18:08 GMT -6
Your knowledge of Johnny Herbert is interesting, though. Sounds like he was a lot like Darrell Waltrip-a whiner.  Your knowledge of diffusers is probably the more impressive because you got it the hard way-self-taught. Can you install a clandestine diffuser on my SM? Invisible would be good.... Yes, Hoosiers is the subject because SCCA chose them of all the tires available. The price per tire, effective Dec.1, 2011, is $166 each, with no shaving needed, so the price will make it a poor Man's Choice. They are in line with shaved RA1s, but don't need the extra $15 per tire cost for shaving. Anyone with experience or testing of Hoosiers can chime in here to take part in this. I'm on my way to figuring it out and will share what i learn. This isn't rocket science, but it IS new to us Spec pilots. I think the key is getting the Hot temps between 180-200, and that will be determined by tire pressures, which in turn will be influenced greatly by ambient temperatures. Simple, but tedious. Your tire brand info is very interesting! It appears that only ONE driver drove RA1s from choice. Hoosiers in R6 format (identical to SM6 tires, but without the discounted price) are $221 each, which makes them pricey. The R1s and Kumhos were surely better than RA1s, and I believe the Hoosiers will be better, too. We'll see, won't we? But first, there's this pressure thing, built around variable ambient temps for Cold pressures, whew.... |
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Post by Flying Tiger on Oct 3, 2011 7:38:01 GMT -6
This post is mainly for newbies like myself who have not been racing for many years, but who are still learning about setup, tires, etc. If you believe that something here is not correct, please feel free to disagree. I have already learned several things about Hoosier tire pressures:
I find that my tire pressures will be determined by:
1. the car (year),
2. the setup (ride height, cross weight)
3. the driver's style of driving -
4. in conjunction with tire TEMPERATURES (180-200 HOT);
One of our members (who drives with his car loose enough to slide around the track) who is very fast and hold the track record at 1:23+ uses HOT pressures of 34 all around with his setup. Maybe he will report his "setup", but I don't know what that is.
My car setup is great with the tires cold but tends to still push a little in a race when the tires heat up, but in qualifying I did tie a personal best at 1:25.9 using the Hoosiers (same best as my 1.6 blue car which is for sale). But when checking my tire temps, they were all too low, meaning I have too much air in them, as HOT temps were 36 lbs fronts, 38 lbs rears. I have to start at lower COLD pressures and shoot for the HOT temps to be between 180-200 degrees. Your car (year) and setup will determine whether your front and rear tire pressures should be the same, more in front, more in back, etc.
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Post by turbot on Oct 3, 2011 8:24:00 GMT -6
Man that's hot,.....I guess those temps are in the ball park for other Hoosier people....? The two tires most like the Hoosier would be the BFG R1 and the HK Z214 and using both of those, we rarely see temps above 150F with cars at comparable weight and power to a Miata. Target temps at BFG show around the 190F range but we never see it. I could see some temp, maybe a variable of +10-20F transfer to tire temps, driver to driver, from excessive brake use ("style") from the rotor via the wheel but 50F more....? Too much time off the brakes at our track for that, especially on a momentum car like a 944 or Miata. Temps for the tires we've run are at 32-34 psi hot, 2400lb. car at 1.24.xx lap times and 49.8-50.4% cross weight. Ambient and track surface temps, no dramatic increase. Not Hoosier specific, but close enough kin.....  T |
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Post by turbot on Oct 3, 2011 8:29:47 GMT -6
BTW Reg, we rely on tire width temps to verify pressure.
You need more pressure if the temps you have collected show the center to be coolest.....less if center is hottest.
T
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Post by Flying Tiger on Oct 3, 2011 13:09:26 GMT -6
My hottest temp was 155 on ONE edge of one tire. The remainder of temps were in the 130-140s. I'll go back to the notebook and see whether center are edges are mostly hotter or cooler. Thanks, T. By the way, the tires were really hot on the car running 34s HOT, but he was really fast! I understand that an under-inflated tire will be too hot, overinflated will be too cool. I can't respond to the variance between the factory recommended 180-200 and what everyone seems to get, except to mention that our tires are D.O.T. tires, not the others.
EDIT: In the last race I was running 37 lbs. front and 38 rear. The center of the left side tires was a little higher than the outside and inside. I understand the inside should run about 10 degrees higher than the middle or outside on these particular DOT Hoosiers. I'm dropping my pressures by 3 lbs front and 2 lbs rear to see if that works. My setup is not the same as yours will be because my car is a '99 and is heavier, with different suspension.
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Post by chris on Oct 10, 2011 8:26:24 GMT -6
Reggie,
Missed you yesterday, Nate came down with his sister, ben, Gerald and kieth were all running the miatas. Set a hook on a lapping day jock by putting him in Jasons car for a session. Trying to get Nate to come down for November. If we get the same turnout plus the dozen of so that missed last event, its going to be busy out on the track.
Chris
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Post by Flying Tiger on Oct 10, 2011 9:25:08 GMT -6
Hey, that would be great! I've got a hub or something on the new car that needs fixing, so I couldn't make it.
If we get 10 or more spec Miatas will we have our own feature race, or will we continue the same format, running with the bracket cars? Just asking....
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Other than that, we have little in common. ;D 
Your knowledge of diffusers is probably the more impressive because you got it the hard way-self-taught. Can you install a clandestine diffuser on my SM? Invisible would be good....
